Members Present:                                                              Aletha Magyaros
                                                                                              Donna Conaway
                                                                                              James Bauder
                                                                                              David Benner
                                                                                              Stephen Bergman
Alternate Member:                                                              Richard Russell

Zoning Administrator:                                                        John Phillippi
Zoning Data Coordinator:                                                 Joni Poindexter

Mr. Bauder made a motion to approve the minutes from the meeting held July 17, 2003.

Mr. Russell seconded the motion.

The vote was: Mr. Russell-yes, Mr. Bergman-yes, Mr. Benner-yes, Mr. Bauder-yes, Ms. Conaway-yes, and Ms. Magyaros-yes.

Mr. Bauder recused himself from amendment #530-03.

AMENDMENT #530-03 – NexTerra Ltd., Leonard Corsi, 715 Wye Road, Akron, Ohio 44333 agent for Robert Vail, Mary Vail Thomas, CW Vail LLC & Josephine Vail, property owners, 2445 Brentwood Rd. NW, Canton, Ohio 44708 proposes to rezone R-R (Rural Residential District) to R-3 (Residential Planned Unit Development District) 18 acres, more or less, north of Hills & Dales Rd. bounded by the fire station to the west, Wackerly to the east, Everhard Rd. to the north, & 51.5 acres, more or less, north of Everhard Rd. and east of Brunnerdale, Sect. 26SW Jackson Twp. (Legal description on file)

Ms. Magyaros read the file application signed by Leonard Corsi and Stark County Regional Planning’s recommendation for approval and the facts considered in their recommendation.

Ms. Magyaros asked who would like to speak in favor of the amendment.

Mr. Leonard Corsi, 715 Wye Road, Akron, Ohio 44333 stated that their purpose in development is to promote a sustainable development which is pretty much in accordance with the PUD ordinances.  Mr. Corsi stated that a sustainable development is to mediate the tensions between economics development, environment, community, and safety.

Mr. Corsi stated that they would like to bring the best of environment and community and by taking a concept like they did, they walked a little bit softer on the land, taking a look at it and viewing it, and seeing how a development can fit on the land without taking and eating up all of the land available and maintaining open space and creating a sense of community by creating village like development areas so that they can maintain open vista’s and large open space areas and nestle the development in trying to be good neighbors by maintaining natural buffer zones and keeping away from the environmentally sensitive areas.

Mr. Jack Stevenson stated that he is the Vice President of Campbell Engineering and has also been a resident of Jackson Township for fifteen years.  Mr. Stevenson stated that he lives about one mile from the property in question.

Mr. Stevenson stated that it is encouraging to see so many people in attendance at the hearing.  The reason why they chose to go with an R-3 zoning as opposed to others is because they wanted exactly what is happening at the meeting, they want the community involved and want to know the communities input.

Mr. Stevenson stated that there are some unique characteristics to the property and in his opinion it would be a shame to have a developer come in and sandbox this piece of property and destroy a beautiful piece of land that has been in the heart of Jackson Township for many years.  Mr. Stevenson stated that Mr. Corsi specializes in open space echo friendly types of projects.

Mr. Stevenson stated that there has been some tension from what he has read in the newspapers about other people trying to rezone property in the neighborhood but in his opinion this is the way to rezone property, all the neighbors get together and discuss exactly what everyone will be living with.

Mr. Stevenson stated that in his opinion the plan is very innovated, very forward thinking, and a very echo thinking type of project that saves many things that most developers don’t even think about.  Parks, wetlands, woods, cleared pastures, trials, a community garden center, and a local neighborhood toddler center are planned for the people who will be living in the development.

Mr. Stevenson stated that there would be private streets that are going to be completely paid for by the people who live in the development.  The entire sewer is paid for by Mr. Corsi up front who then has to give it to the sewer department and each individual owner will pay for that sewer on a monthly basis.

Mr. Stevenson stated that they tried to make the project have the least impact on the environment and on the taxpayer’s pocketbooks and the density is no higher than if the property were left R-R.

Mr. Stevenson stated that with the property zoned R-R and 20,000 sq. ft. lots if you divide that into seventy acres he could get one hundred fifty five lots and destroy the whole property.  They are only asking for one hundred twenty nine which they feel is fair.

Mr. Stevenson stated that he understands if some people want zero growth but this is 2003 and we are living in reality and growth is going to happen however it needs to be responsible growth and development.  Mr. Stevenson stated to the audience if they are against the project to please say something constructive that they can use instead of just bashing the project.

Mr. Stevenson stated that the project would have sixty six townhouses.  They do not have multi family units and they are not apartments.  They are two story units with two story garages.  There are sixty three fee simple residential lots with different sizes.  Along Wackerly Rd. there are five 20,000 sq. ft. lots that mirror exactly what is across the street.  The townhouses will be located behind the fire station and will be single family 7,000 sq. ft. lots.  The units are 45 ft. wide and the lots are 65 ft. deep.  The three quarter to one acre estate lots will be located along the hill area.

Mr. Stevenson stated that the townhouses would sell in the range of $200,000, the fee simple lots would be in the $250,000 range, and the estate lots would be in the range of $350,000 plus.  Mr. Stevenson stated that the project is a fifty million dollar investment and has been in the works since August 2001.

Ms. Magyaros stated that one of regional planning’s comments state that there is a discrepancy in the application and the legal description as far as acreage and asked if this had been corrected.

Mr. Stevenson stated that they had a meeting on August 7, 2003 with Mr. Phillippi and Reva Butera from regional planning.  The problem is that three of the legal descriptions are new and were done by ME Engineering and the other two legal descriptions are very old.  A couple of years ago Everhard Rd. was cut through the property so they are not sure if that acreage was taken out or not but the exterior boundary of the property is correct.  Mr. Stevenson stated that he is very sure if the property were rezoned the legal descriptions would work 100%.

Mr. Stevenson stated that the plan more than meets the code by two and one half times what is required.  They have told Mr. Phillippi that they guarantee the project will not have less than 50% open space.  There is still one last issue that they just found out about which is the county wants a 50 ft. right of way for Wackerly, 80 ft. for Hills & Dales, and 80 ft. for Everhard so the open space will shrink a little bit but they area very comfortable that there will be at least 50% of open space and the density will not be above 129 units.  Mr. Stevenson stated that the minimum required open space is 25% so they have two times what is required.

Ms. Magyaros asked if the developers had met with the surrounding property owners.

Mr. Stevenson stated that Mr. Corsi has met with some people including Mr. Bennell.

Mr. Stevenson stated that the whole purpose of not submitting a preliminary plat at this hearing is because they have been reading the newspaper and the sensitivity of rezoning.  Before they got too far they thought it would be a good idea to get everyone together and talk about what people want and don’t want.  Mr. Stevenson stated that if things go well he can guarantee by the next meeting the board will have a preliminary plat in front of them with the new calculations.

Ms. Magyaros asked Mr. Stevenson to again review how many townhouse and such there would be.

Mr. Stevenson stated that there will be sixty six townhouses, which are highlighted in bright yellow in the packet and are located on either side of the fire station.  There will be sixty three single family fee simple lots and there will be five lots on Wackerly that are 20,000 sq. ft. each.  There are nine estate lots that range from three quarters to one acre and the other forty nine lots are 7,500 sq. ft.

Mr. Stevenson showed the board an aerial view of the property and stated that the white area is an existing corn field which is about 90% of the development so very little trees would be removed.

Ms. Magyaros stated that she walked up to the corn field and it is very high and wanted to know what would happen with the runoff on the property.

Mr. Stevenson stated that the runoff on the corn field is similar to the runoff on a street.  When they get done they will have a lot of thick grass that will slow down the runoff.  The ponds are very much uphill from where the wetlands are.  The pond will hold the rain and be discharged at the same rate that is being discharged now and then they let it run down another hill to clean it up more.  Mr. Stevenson stated that the drainage plan would have to be approved.

Ms. Magyaros asked if there would be a homeowners association that would maintain the ponds and common areas.

Mr. Stevenson stated that all the open space, other than what the homeowners decide needs to be cleaned up such as dead trees, for the most part is to be left in its natural state and not touched.

Ms. Conaway asked who would be in charge of the snow removal.

Mr. Stevenson stated that everything in the development is private and is the complete burden of the community.  The tax dollars will not pay for maintaining the property.

Mr. Benner asked where the water and sewer would be picked up from.

Mr. Stevenson stated that there is a water main at the fire station that will be extended to Hills & Dales and one on Everhard and they will loop the system.  The sewer’s main trunk line for the county runs down the middle of the project so sewer is available.

Mr. Clark Richards asked what the square footage of each individual unit is.
Mr. Stevenson stated that the individual units are 45 ft. wide by 50 ft. deep for the 1st floor building footprint.  Each unit will have a two car garage recessed back.

Mr. Corsi stated that the concept is cape code western reserve type units.

Mr. Stevenson stated that when the preliminary plat is submitted they will also submit a copy of the covenants and restriction for the homeowners association.

Mr. Phillippi stated that when talking about the preliminary plat, it will not be seen by the zoning commission or the trustees.  The process is if this plan is approved by the zoning commission and trustees no other plan comes back to the zoning commission or the trustees unless there is a significant change in the plan.

Mr. Stevenson stated even though it is not required they will make sure the township gets a copy of the preliminary plat and what they submit to the county.

Ms. Conaway asked if there is a projection as to what the association dues would be.

Mr. Stevenson stated that he is not sure.  Until the development is 98% sold the developer is the homeowners association so for the most part the developer is responsible for everything.

Ms. Magyaros read the memo from Chief Heck of the fire department and Mr. Stevenson stated that they have agreed and will comply with all the requirements or comments from the fire department.

Mr. Stevenson stated that he had nothing further to add at this point.

Ms. Magyaros asked if anyone else in the audience wanted to speak in favor of the amendment.

Mr. Charles Bennell, 5555 Evehard Rd., stated that he bought his home fifteen years ago.  It is his understanding that the decisions of the commission pretty much stand alone so if the Vail property is rezoned that doesn’t exactly mean that if he came in next week and tried to build a drug store that he would be able to.

Mr. Bennell stated that he has a very strong sense that the owners of the Vail farm have an interest in making sure what happens with the property that they have had for a long time fits.  Naturally they want to sell their property and receive a good return on what’s been a wonderful place to live and good investment.  Mr. Bennell stated that he hopes what happens around him continues to enhance the value of his home just as he hopes things like good schools make his home worth more.

Mr. Bennell stated that he is not a professional land planner but has taken a hard look at the plan and it looks to him among all the things that could have been done this fits in reasonably well.  The developer could readily develop a conventional allotment, a cookie cutter allotment if you will, with the same amount or even more homes but they are not trying to do that.

Mr. Bennell stated that Everhard is safer now that it is four lanes.  There are more cars than he wishes were there but there is always going to be traffic on Everhard Rd.

Mr. Bennell stated that there will be entrances and exits on Hills & Dales, Everhard, Wackerly, and Marzelli Circle, which suggests to him that not everyone will be dumping out of one entrance so he does not think it will be detrimental in that regard.  Mr. Bennell stated that the residents of the township continue to say yes to the school district so he suspects that the schools will be able to handle the families that may choose to live in the development and does not think that safety issues are a matter of concern.

Mr. Bennell stated that his presumption is that the development will be congruent with the long range plan that the zoning bodies and trustees have put forward.
Mr. Bennell stated from the perspective of somebody that is going to be affected by this development as much as anybody because he is right next to it, it looks like a thought through plan that he and his wife is comfortable with.

Mr. Bill Day, 4821 Nobles Pond, stated that he thinks the plan meets right on with what the township has been striving for assuming what has been presented is what is going to be built.  Mr. Day stated that he is impressed with what he has heard.

Ms. Magyaros stated that she would like to make it clear that what is approved is what has to be built.

Mr. Phillippi stated if the zoning is changed it has to be based on a land use plan which is the reason that it has to be in the detail that it is.  Whatever is approved that plan becomes part of the zoning change.  Anything that would be a significant deviation would have to go back to the trustees for an amendment.  An example is density, traffic patterns, street patterns and design, or any decrease in the open space.  Mr. Phillippi stated that this is the type of rezoning that the township is striving for, where you have a certainty if a plan is approved and that is the development that will be provided.

No one else in the audience spoke in favor of the amendment.

Ms. Magyaros asked if anyone in the audience wanted to speak in opposition to the amendment.

Mr. Clark Richards, 5290 Schario Rd. NW, stated that he representing several residents in the township that are trying to unite and want to voice one opinion that they are opposed the change in the zoning to a PUD.

Mr. Richards stated although they have a very nice plan, he thinks the one thing that the residents are greatly concerned about is the safety, traffic, and congestion that 129 homes dumping onto Everhard Rd. will do to the community.  Mr. Richards showed the board a few renderings and stated that the one thing the residents want to see is a reduction in the high density developments.

Mr. Richards stated that several years ago Everhard Rd. was modified and straightened so there wouldn’t be any dangerous zones or curves.  With the development there will be an egress onto Everhard Rd. that conjoins with Willowcrest.  Mr. Richards stated that there is also going to be a fire exit but he is not sure how this will work and if it will gated and locked and if it is who will open it for the fire trucks.  If it’s not locked it will be used to get onto Everhard Rd.

Mr. Richards stated that there are seven entranceways onto Everhard Rd. where the average speed, although it’s supposed to be 45 mph is more than that.  Mr. Richards stated that with the congestion many of the cars continue to make a left turn onto Strouble and then a right on Sibila to get to Frank Ave.  This needs to stop.  People are going to keep cutting through the neighborhoods and with all the congestion that there is in the area people will start cutting through the Brunnerdale area also.

Mr. Richards stated that currently there are 8,900 cars per day that travel on Brunnerdale on a daily basis.  Everhard alone has 14,200 cars per day and Hills & Dales has 10,500 cars on a daily basis.  Mr. Richards stated that 129 homes with two car garages will dump another 260 cars onto Everhard & Brunnerdale not to mention the additional cars that will dump onto Hills & Dales.  Mr. Richards stated safety is a primary concern of the residents.

Mr. Richards stated that high density is also a concern.  He is talking about close houses.  This community has been built on one half acre lots.  Even with this type of development they don’t need to put four houses on one acre.

Mr. Richards stated that Mr. Stevenson had said that this was a private community yet he gave everyone an invitation to come into the allotment.

Mr. Benner stated that he believes the question about privacy has to do with the maintenance of the lots, streets, and the common areas.

Mr. Richards asked if the common areas are available to all the Jackson residents.

Mr. Stevenson stated that it is available to the immediate neighborhood.  If Mr. Vail wants to walk through the corn field area like he’s done in the past or if Mr. Bennell decides he wants to walk through the woods then they are welcome to do that.  If a bus load of kids from wherever wants to then they are not welcome.

Mr. Richards stated that in efforts of the comprehensive plan that Jackson has tried to outline to adopt an open space preservation plan for Jackson Township in which potential park location and open preservation areas are identified, he believes the spirit of this was intended to preserving open space in Jackson that can be enjoyed by all the residents of Jackson Township and not just those living in a private PUD.

Mr. Richards stated although he can appreciate the Vail’s desire to protect the ponds and wetlands, it’s a trade off for lack of residential lawns and places for children to play.  If they are going to preserve open space then it needs to be shared and made available to everyone.

Mr. Richards stated that he is not sure about the 25% rule.  He knows there are exclusions such as wetlands, floodplains, easements, and other properties and assumes that Mr. Phillippi has looked at this but it looks like most of the land that is identified as green space at the bottom is already currently wetlands and floodplains.

Mr. Phillippi stated that the regulation currently is that no more than one acre of designated wetlands, floodways, and existing ponds can be utilized in the calculations of the open space and it appears to him that the calculations are correct.

Mr. Phillippi stated at one time he had proposed to the trustees that the floodplains not be allowed to count as open space.  That was specifically changed.  He doesn’t necessarily disagree with the change but it was major in that it went from eliminating floodplains to the only thing that is eliminated is the floodway, which is basically the actual ditch that carries the water.  When an area of a floodplain is identified that very much is, under the current regulations, allowed to be calculated into the open space.

Mr. Magyaros stated that the regulations actually talk about a 100 year floodway.

Mr. Phillippi stated that the floodway would basically be the ditch and the floodplain is the entire area that is subject to the 100 year inundation.

Mr. Richards stated that he just wanted to make sure he understood.

Mr. Bergman asked Mr. Richards if he calculated what he thought the 25% would be.

Mr. Richards stated that he tried but he couldn’t because he wasn’t sure what the footage was on the map.

Mr. Richards stated that currently there are high density developments in progress and thinks they need to make efficient use of the land that is currently being developed.  Mr. Richards stated that they don’t know what demand all the developments are going to put on the schools and roads and whether people even want to live in these homes.  He is speaking out about high density, commercial, and multi family developments.

Mr. Richards stated that he is convinced that the residents have clearly demonstrated that zoning 69 acres to R-3 does not necessarily protect the safety and the welfare of Jackson Township.  By approving the zoning change he believes the residents will pay the ultimate price of dealing with over crowding, increased traffic, and it will set precedence for the development of Tam O’Shanter.  Mr. Richards asked the board to oppose the rezoning and protect the township, community, and neighbors, and vote no.

Mr. Benner asked Mr. Richards if his main concern is the traffic and the egress onto Everhard.

Mr. Richards stated that he is concerned with people cutting through the neighborhoods and the number of egresses and ingresses onto Everhard Rd.

Mr. Benner stated that Mr. Richards had said that density was also an issue with the residents but the developer has stated that the way the property is currently zoned they could actually put more houses on the property.

Mr. Phillippi stated that no one knows exactly how many 20,000 sq. ft. lots could be put on the property because the streets in addition to the areas that cannot be developed would have to be deducted.  Mr. Phillippi stated that if it was developed under the R-R he believes the density would be a little bit lower but there is no way to tell because it depends on the design of the project.

Ms. Magyaros asked Mr. Richards if the number of dwellings were reduced if he and the other residents would feel that many of the problems and concerns that they have would be alleviated.

Mr. Richards stated from the few individuals that he has spoken to he would have to say that the answer is yes, if they get fewer homes on the property it would be better.  Mr. Richards stated that he doesn’t think that enough residents know about the hearing to get their input because the property owners only received a notice two weeks ago and he believes that the process could be improved.

Ms. Magyaros stated that the notices were sent out per the Ohio Revised Code.

Mr. Richards stated that if the developer really wants to be a part of the community then the burden should be put on them to communicate with the homeowners within a one mile radius.

Mr. Mark Weiner, 2800 West Dale Rd., stated that he is strongly opposed to the request.  The developer wants to put an urban center in a rural suburb.  The traffic, schools, and infrastructure was reviewed but he doesn’t know how a decision can be made unless they have data.  Mr. Weiner stated that it is someone’s obligation to tell them what the alternatives are and what maximum population would be if built under the R-R zoning and until there is something to compare it to he doesn’t know how the board can change the zoning.  Mr. Weiner stated that the residents will have to live with the consequences of what the board decides.

Mr. David Hoffman, 2814 West Dale Rd., stated that the plan shows that there will be 20 ft. between houses that are not even on one quarter of an acre.  This is cramming multiple houses down their necks and they do not need it.  If the houses were spread out more it might make a decent neighborhood but all the smaller areas are really squeezed in.

Ms. Corrine Schindler, 2715 West Dale Rd., wanted to know where the gas transmission line is that traverses all of the acreage from Brookside Country Club all the way through and crossing Hills & Dales Rd.  Ms. Schindler showed the board a map and explained what it represented.

Mr. Stevenson stated that he is aware of all the gas lines on the property and explained where they are located on the map.  Mr. Stevenson stated that he met with the gas company and the lines were flagged and it was surveyed.

Ms. Schindler stated that there are different phases on the plan and wanted to know if the phases will be developed at the same time or in sections and how long it will take for construction.

Mr. Stevenson stated that it would probably take about four years to complete the project.
Ms. Schindler stated that she is very concerned with the traffic and the impact on the community.

Mr. Jeff Bing, 4183 Meadowview NW, stated that the back of his lot adjoins the proposed development.  The project is going to be in four phases and he would like to know what assurance they have that the later phases will remain as they are on the plat today.  Density is the chief concern and the residents do not want high density housing.  Mr. Bing asked what assurance the residents have that the single family homes will remain single family because they want the homes that abut Devonshire Heights # 2 to remain consistent with what is inside Devonshire Heights #2, which is single family housing.

Ms. Magyaros stated that the purpose of the R-3 is that the plan that is presented and approved is the plan that has to be built.  Any changes that would be made would have to go back to the trustees.

Mr. Phillippi stated that the whole concept of a PUD is that under the zone change it has to be based upon a plan.  If a plan is approved as an R-3 PUD then that is all that can be built.  Any substantial change would have to go back to the trustees for review. If there is a slight adjustment to the road this would not have to go back to the trustees but if there is a change in the type of housing, the density is increased, or a reduction in open space, those are significant changes.

Ms. Magyaros stated that once the plan is approve it has to substantially conform to what was approved by the zoning commission and trustees.

Mr. Phillippi gave an example of how Glenmoor, which is an R-3 development, wanted to add a 1,500 sq. ft. addition to their existing facility so they had to go back before the trustees in a public hearing to get approval for the addition because it was not on their original approved plan.

Ms. Magyaros stated that the R-3 PUD probably provides more protection for the township residents as far as having input and what the developer proposes to do.

An audience member asked what would happen if the developer sells.

Ms. Magyaros stated that anyone who would take over the property and continued to develop it would have to conform to the previous plan.  If they wanted to make any changes then they would have to go through the hearing process again.

An audience member asked Mr. Phillippi if he concurred with what Ms. Magyaros stated.

Mr. Phillippi stated yes, this is very clear in the regulations.

Ms. Jan Fischgrund, 2915 West Dale NW, stated that she is opposed to the plan.  She hears the cars and smells the fumes from all the traffic and believes the development would bring down the level of the community.

Mr. Todd Blackledge, 2711 Glenmont NW, stated that when he signed in for the meeting he put that he was opposed because he didn’t have enough information as to what this was all about.  He received a letter in his mailbox and what he read frightened him a little bit, the idea of a high density housing development.  Mr. Blackledge stated that the idea of high density is a concern for everyone because everything kind of goes from there.  The traffic problem is a result of the greater density and the safety problem is a result of greater traffic which is a result of the greater density.

Mr. Blackledge stated that the property values are a result of high density that maybe doesn’t meet up to what everything around it is like.  After listening to the presentation he is impressed with the developer’s ideas and what appears to be them trying to maintain some integrity with the surrounding areas and topography of the area.  Mr. Blackledge stated that they are asking for 129 units and say that they could build 155 if done a cookie cutter style way but if he were voting he would want to know what it would look like if there were 100 or 80 units or built under the R-R requirements.  Mr. Blackledge stated that he is very impressed but is not sure there is enough information out there to make a decision.

Ms. Jane Quilter, 2930 West Dale NW, stated that she moved to Jackson Township this past Christmas from Brookfield, Wisconsin.  They are known to be the second best managed city in the state of Wisconsin.  Their motto there was country in the city.  A similar development was put in the city of Brookfield and the plan looked good before it was built but when it was done it was very disappointing because of the density that was approved.

Ms. Quilter stated that one of the positive points that were made when reviewing the plan was the issue of drainage for storm sewers and the fact that this is all going to be privately funded on private roads.  Ms. Quilter stated that she lives on a private road and their drainage comes from the private roads in Hills & Dales.  She would like to invite all the board members along with Mr. Stevenson and Mr. Corsi to come to her property and see at the current drainage rate that they are going to sustain in their own way what has happened with privately funded storm sewers.  There is a chasm in her yard that is nine feet deep and twelve feet wide.  It can swallow up human beings and the county is no help at all because they have a recording on their machine that says they are out of funds for the rest of the year.  This is an example of what private funding can do to storm sewers in a place that that is poorly funded.

Mr. Ron Barth, 3860 Willowcrest NW, stated that he has owned his property for 16 years and has over one acre.  Traffic is a concern.  When he comes out of Willowcrest he sees an embankment that is 20 ft. high and presumes people will not cut through there but if they do there is going to be a terrible traffic situation.

Ms. Betty Myer, 2521 Glenmont NW, stated that she is totally opposed to the rezoning.  Ms. Myer stated that the little cookie cutter houses that have two car garages that people get to choose from, there is no class to this subdivision.  It’s just slapping it up in the middle of a corn field.  No body has an option for a three car garage and today everybody has three car garages in the new buildings.  Ms. Myer stated that this development will ruin the neighborhood.

Mr. John Hahn, 2800 Brentwood Rd. NW, stated that there will be five houses on Wackerly and the entrance off of Hills & Dales has 18 units in approximately the same area so it is too much to bring onto Hills & Dales.

Mr. Hahn asked if the fire lane that goes onto Wackerly would be locked.

Mr. Corsi stated that the emergency fire entrance would be locked and the fire department would have a key.

Ms. Magyaros asked if a traffic study had been done.

Mr. Stevenson stated that they did not do a specific study but they have been in business for 20 years and last year they did 85 subdivisions.  It has been their experience that subdivisions generate 10 trips per day.  Multiply that by 129 and the day trip count for this project is 1,129 cars.  It is also their experience that number would not constitute left turn right turn lane or an intersection.  Mr. Stevenson stated that they would be more than happy to provide a traffic study and waste $7,500 but when you do 85 of these a year you know what you will have.

Ms. Magyaros stated that she thinks the residents would feel more comfortable if there was a traffic study.

Ms. Magyaros stated that they haven’t really talked too much about the impact on the schools and is not really sure what elementary school the children would attend.

Ms. Conaway stated that the children would attend the Lake Cable schools.

Mr. Stevenson stated that it is hard to project family sizes but for the most part it will be duel incomes with no kids and/or empty nesters.  Most of the people who will buy the detached homes do not want to pay for, because they can’t afford, a large two acre lot like those in Hills & Dales with a big 8,000 sq. ft. mansion.

Mr. Russell stated that many of the concerns are based on density and the suggestion has been what are the options in terms of how many houses could fit if the property stayed zoned R-R.  He doesn’t know if there is a way to address the issue of density within the development or for the board to determine from a study as to what is buildable and how many homes could be there.

Mr. Stevenson stated that they can’t put the cart before the horse.  For the last four or five years they have diligently had public hearings to come up with this is the type of project that is wanted in the community.  The public has had mucho time and input to put into affect the code that he as a developer has to live with and then right in the middle of it the zoning book changed again and he had to change his whole plan.

Mr. Stevenson stated that under the existing code if Mr. Corsi decided to do all attached units the code allows 400.  If all the units were detached, which is what they fall under because they have mixed units, the maximum density that they would be allowed to do is 146.  Under the existing code 2.2 units can be built per acre and they are only asking for 1.8 and are only 82% of the existing density.  Over the past six years they have had other people look at the property that were willing to spend the money and to fill in the wetlands, which he is allowed to fill under the Army Core of Engineers permit, three acres, and he is allow to ditch 1,100 feet of wetlands.  If he had enough money and enough time he could come in a pipe a ditch 1,100 feet of the beautiful strip.

An audience member stated that Mr. Stevenson is threatening them.

Mr. Stevenson stated that he is not threatening anyone.  He is just telling the residents what the regulations are.

Ms. Magyaros stated that Mr. Stevenson needed to address the commission and their questions.

Mr. Corsi stated that he has no interest in increasing any density.  He feels what he is asking for is the best project under the best practices that are proposed in the industry today that most developers don’t want to do.  Mr. Corsi stated that he understands that this development isn’t for everyone but some people want to downsize and this is an alternative life style.

Mr. Corsi stated that he came before the board and his company’s whole purpose for developing and doing things is to be on the cutting edge, leading and progressive edge of what communities are trying to avoid which is what the residents are trying to avoid, that had they not used standard ordinances and communities built on those ordinances they wouldn’t have half of the problems that they end up having through the years.  Mr. Corsi stated that’s why these are the best practices and that’s why it cost more money to develop this land.

Mr. Corsi stated that he wants the audience to understand that what Mr. Stevenson is telling them is if somebody wanted to, and he is not that person and he won’t do it because it is against his ethics and he is the developer, all Mr. Stevenson is trying to tell them is that someone can come in and sandbox the homes in, take out all the hills, and sloop it up but he will not do that.  Mr. Corsi stated that they are not trying to hurt the community.  They are trying to give the community the best that is going on in the country and he would never increase the density on the land.

Mr. Stevenson stated by his calculations they could get more than 129 units on the property under the existing zoning.  Mr. Stevenson stated that the letter from stark county regional planning states that this project is far under the existing zoning for the property.

Mr. Stevenson stated that he likes the idea about the traffic study but thinks there are some other things that could be discussed about the traffic.

An audience member asked if they would consider lowering the density.

Mr. Stevenson stated no, because under the existing zoning they could put in 2.2 units per acre and they are only at 1.8.

Mr. Bergman stated that the 2.2 is based on the existing zoning.

Ms. Magyaros asked Mr. Stevenson if they considered taking away some of the attached units and putting in detached units.

Mr. Stevenson stated that this would be a density reduction and they are already 20% less than the existing zoning allows and he doesn’t think they are being unreasonable.

Ms. Magyaros stated that this seemed to be the main issue.

Mr. Bergman stated that the concern he has over the density issue is if there is a percentage of the property that is not developable regardless of what 2.2 of the total property is, the 2.2 units per acre has to be based on what is developable.

Mr. Benner asked Mr. Phillippi to tell the board how the regulations are written.

Mr. Phillippi stated that the 2.2 is relative to the R-3 and the density that is permitted for this particular type of R-3 PUD.  This is applied in a formula basis to the overall acreage after taking out the existing road right of way etc.  This is where the 2.2 dwelling units come in but for the existing zoning that is there now, R-R, the criteria has nothing to do with 2.2 dwelling units per acre.  It’s 20,000 sq. ft. lot minimum not including any road right of way.  Whatever can be put on the property and still meet the 20,000 sq. ft. minimum lot size, the frontage requirements, and all the subdivision regulations, then that is what can be put on the property.  Mr. Phillippi stated that he doesn’t think without doing a full blown development plan anyone can say without any certainty how many units could be put on the property under the current zoning.

Mr. Stevenson stated that under the existing zoning he does not have to subtract out of his calculations like he does for the R-3.  If looking at the open space calculations on the plan there is 70 acres and per the calculation he has to subtract out the right of ways for Hills & Dales, Everhard and Wackerly along with the gas well easements, ditch channels, wetlands, and ponds.  Then he has to take 25% of that which means he has to have a minimum of fifteen acres of open space and he has thirty five.

Ms. Magyaros asked how long the phases would take to build.

Mr. Stevenson stated that phase one is pretty simple.  There are five lots that match exactly what is across the street from Wackerly.  The sewer is already there so it could happen very quickly.  Phase two is behind the fire house, which is lots one through thirty one and would take about eighteen months.  Mr. Stevenson stated that the total time would be about four or five years.

Ms. Deann Tschantz, 2601 Brentwood NW, stated that she is a realtor.  As a realtor she looks at the plan and thinks that they have done a wonderful job but she is also a homeowner.  She is very concerned because of the traffic, noise, and schools but the main thing that the people have to keep in mind is what they don’t want changed.  They don’t want the higher density or multi housing and it’s not just for this little piece of property that they are talking about.  There are other adjacent properties that are going to want to do the same thing and this is not what the residents want.  Ms. Tschantz stated that there is a huge fear factor and this is what the residents are talking about.

An audience member asked if Wackerly would be a main thoroughfare because it will bring down the value of the homes that are on that street.

Mr. Stevenson stated no.

Ms. Magyaros stated that she is not ready to vote and thinks the traffic is a valid concern and a traffic study needs to be done.  Ms. Magyaros asked how long it would take to do a traffic study.

Mr. Stevenson stated that the county already has very recent traffic counts and if they can utilize the existing traffic counts then a traffic study can be prepared by the next meeting.

Ms. Magyaros stated that they could schedule a meeting for September 18, 2003.

Mr. Stevenson stated that if they can use the county traffic system, because they do a pretty good job of counting cars already and they have quantified all the streets that are there now, they can come in with a traffic study and show the board what they feel might warrant what should happen at the intersection.  Mr. Stevenson stated that they will try to have a traffic study by the next meeting if the board will allow them to use the counties traffic numbers that are already in existence.  If not he will let the board know in advance before the meeting.

Ms. Magyaros asked if the commission members are in agreement to continue the hearing until the next meeting in order to get the results of a traffic study.

Mr. Benner stated that at other hearings the commission has had, basically the traffic counts are roughly ten trips per house per day and this is pretty much what they will find.  If a traffic study is done and they take the counts that already exist from the county then basically they are looking at 1,200 to 1,300 trips per day out of the development.  Mr. Benner stated that he is not sure how much more or less that’s going to tell them then what they know right now about the traffic.  Mr. Benner stated that his concern over postponing the hearing is that he is not sure they are going to have any more information from a traffic study then they have now as far as what the impact will be.

Ms. Magyaros stated that another main concern of the residents is density and she doesn’t know if the plan could be modified or if they would be willing to modify the plan to reduce the number of attached dwellings and make some of them single dwellings.

Mr. Stevenson stated that if they were not already under the code that the community has put together over the last several years then he would agree and think they were being pigs about it but they are under the existing code, they are under the propose code by 75% of what they could do and they are 18% under the existing code.  Mr. Stevenson stated that he thinks they are being more than fair.  They are not just asking like Tam O’Shanter did to rezone to R-4 and then you get whatever they want.

Ms. Magyaros stated that she realizes that they are meeting the density requirements above and beyond what is required, especially the open space requirements, but they said they wanted to work with the residents so she is asking if the hearing is continued is there any chance that they would consider reducing the density.

Mr. Corsi stated that the real question is how many homes is enough.  Mr. Corsi stated that if under the current zoning they could get 110 homes, they are only talking about a difference of nineteen homes.  If you take ten trips times nineteen, that’s only a difference of 190 trips in traffic.  Mr. Corsi stated that he will always consider looking at something but the thing is what is acceptable.

Mr. Stevenson stated if the board has some things that they would like to see as far as traffic patterns and what they would like to see to improve the traffic pattern on Everhard then they are willing to listen.  He thought people were going to complain about buffering but none of this has happened.  All he heard was zero growth.
An audience member stated that they do not know enough but he would like homes on half-acre lots that are detached from other homes.

Mr. Stevenson stated that they have spent four or five years in the community putting together and a revising, public meetings out the ying yang, to come up with projects exactly like this and you get one that far exceeds it and what happens; what is he missing.

Mr. Stevenson stated that they could do half-acre lot subdivisions all over the place but they prefer to do wonderful projects like this that cost the community half as much for infrastructure and destroys less property.

Mr. Bergman asked if it would help or hinder to have more access to Everhard from the project.

Mr. Stevenson stated that cross traffic movement is not good.  You want to try to eliminate as much of it as possible and try to centralize where people make movements from and then specifically look at those centralized locations and decide if they want four way traffic, two way, six way, or whatever.

Mr. Bergman asked if he is wrong in saying that there are only two entrances to and from the project at least on the larger section.

Mr. Stevenson stated that there is one to Brunnerdale and one to Everhard.  Hills & Dales has thirty one units accessing it.

Ms. Magyaros asked Mr. Corsi and Mr. Stevenson to prepare a traffic study and to base it on the numbers that the county can provide.  Ms. Magyaros asked for a motion to continue the meeting.

Ms. Conaway made a motion to continue the meeting until September 18, 2003 at 7:30 pm.

Mr. Russell seconded the motion.

The vote was: Mr. Russell-yes, Mr. Bergman-yes, Mr. Benner-yes, Ms. Conaway-yes, and Ms. Magyaros-yes.

Ms. Magyaros stated that no further notices would be issued or advertised due to the continuance date being announced at the hearing.

Mr. Benner made a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Mr. Bergman seconded the motion.

The vote was: Mr. Russell-yes, Mr. Bergman-yes, Mr. Benner-yes, Ms. Conaway-yes, and Ms. Magyaros-yes.

Respectfully submitted,

Joni Poindexter
Zoning Data Coordinator
Clerk/Secretary